Jill Neubronner (Presenter): Singapore has taken a rare move of sanctioning Russia, calling Russia’s invasion of Ukraine an existential issue for us all the way in Singapore. Why?
Minister: You know, some Singaporeans have asked me, why is a tiny city-state like us, 8000 kilometres from Ukraine, taking such a strong stand? Precisely because we are a small, tiny, city-state. A large, powerful neighbour has invaded a weaker smaller neighbour. This is a dagger to the heart of the norms of international law and the UN (United Nations) Charter. If we do not stand up now on principle, without taking sides, to state that there has to be respect for international law, for independence, for sovereignty, and for the territorial integrity of smaller countries, our world that we are going to live in is going to be a very dangerous world. This is a dangerous precedent. Therefore, it is an existential issue. Therefore, we have to stand up. We have to take a stand on principle and express it clearly (and) unequivocally.
Neubronner: Now, obviously, a lot of things will change. What impact will Russia’s invasion of Ukraine have on world order? How does Singapore and the larger Asian region navigate this?
Minister: Well, it all depends on how this evolves. If this precedent is allowed to stand, then all bets are off. The world order which has prevailed for seven decades based on the UN Charter, based on mutual respect for all states regardless of size, based on respecting territorial integrity, based on every country, every people, having the independence to decide their destiny – all that is put to question. That, as I said, is a world order which is inimical to small states. The next point is that it depends very much on what happens next, whether diplomacy is given a chance. If, and I hope and pray, that diplomacy and good sense and goodwill will prevail, restraint will be applied, lives will be saved, then at least we have got a chance to make some kind of recovery. But whatever it is, the impact on the economy, impact on norms – do not underestimate (it). This is going to be a long-term problem.
Neubronner: You know, as you said, long-term problems require long-term solutions. How are we going to navigate it again?
Minister: Well, as I said, we are not taking sides. We are not getting engaged in the disputes. But what we are saying is that norms do matter. International law matters. Respect for each other’s sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity, (is) absolutely essential, (as well as the) use (of) international law (and) the means for peaceful resolution of disputes. It is about establishing the norms of behaviour at state level. Actually, the stand we are taking is not really new. In 2014, when Crimea was taken, we also expressed categorically our opposition to that. I can tell you I have met (Russian) Foreign Minister (Sergey) Lavrov several times over the years, and we have been able to have good conversations; (we) sat down, he knows exactly our stand – I expressed it. It did not stop us from continuing to explore other areas in which our relations could be conducted. The point is, I am saying it is possible to take a stand without taking sides. It is possible to construct or reconstruct or repair relations, but to do so in a principled, and consistent and reliable way – that is what makes Singapore relevant, useful, and a partner that people take seriously. I am very glad that we are not alone. If you look at what happened at the UN General Assembly just two days ago, 141 countries voted just the way we did to deplore the invasion of Russia into Ukraine. I guess as a diplomat, you have to be optimistic, and you have to keep trying.
Neubronner: Now to bring you closer to home. It has been frustratingly little progress in the area of Myanmar, particularly on that Five-Point Consensus one year on. I am wondering what more should ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) or what more could ASEAN do to move this process forward?
Minister: Let me be very frank. I am very, very disappointed. This is a tragedy. We all have friends from Myanmar, and we know how their hopes have been dashed. We still believe in the Five-Point Consensus which was arrived at by our leaders in April last year. I still hope that the military authorities will abide by this. We have a planned visit by the Special Envoy (ASEAN Special Envoy, Cambodian Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Prak Sokhonn) later this month. I hope he will be given access to all parties. When you have a deep-seated difficult problem like this, the use of force is never a long-term solution. At the end of the day, you are going to need reconciliation, honest discussion, (and) face-to-face meetings. To the extent that ASEAN can play a facilitative role to mediate what I hope will be a fairer and sustainable and constructive outcome for the people of Myanmar, I hope dearly that we achieve that. But I am also realistic enough to tell you that I think this will take a long time. There are no quick and easy answers.
Neubronner: Understand. Now, in the interest of time, I did want to also get in a question on Malaysia, and how you would characterise our relations with Malaysia, particularly post-COVID. Where are we, well, doing well? What do we do well together, and where do we really need to work on it a little bit more?
Minister: I would say our relations are excellent. During COVID, we have proven to each other that we have been absolutely reliable partners. We made sure supply chains did not go down. We looked after each other’s people, both in terms of evacuation, in terms of taking care and enabling families to get together when they need to. Now, if you look at the epidemiology curves in both Malaysia and Singapore, I think it is a matter of time that we can look forward to reopening both the causeway and Tuas. I suppose in Malay, I would say “akan datang”.
Neubronner: Alright, we will have to leave it there. I would push you for time, but you know, we have run out of time. But I do appreciate what you have said about many of the difficult issues that we are facing right now in the world. Thank you so much, Minister. I have been speaking with Foreign Affairs Minister Dr Vivian Balakrishnan.
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