{Interview conducted by Wolf Blitzer of CNN}
BLITZER: Prime Minister, welcome to the United States. Thanks very much for joining us on CNN.
MANMOHAN SINGH, INDIAN PRIME MINISTER: Thank you very much for having me on CNN.
BLITZER: Let’s talk about the nightmare, the nuclear nightmare. How worried are you about the possibility of a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan?
SINGH: I think the possibilities of such a development are grossly overstated.
BLITZER: Overstated?
SINGH: Overstated. Both our countries are nuclear powers. And as far as we are concerned, we have an impeccable record of not in any way contributing to proliferation of these nuclear technologies.
BLITZER: Are you committed to a non-first-strike policy?
SINGH: Yes, that is very much our policy.
BLITZER: Pakistan has not committed to that, though.
SINGH: That’s certainly true. But I have often felt that outside India and Pakistan, the possibilities of a nuclear clash between India and Pakistan are somewhat exaggerated.
BLITZER: Are you worried, though, that there could be a change of government in Pakistan, that President Musharraf, who has been working more closely with you recently, that there could be a coup, there could be a change that could escalate these tensions?
SINGH: Well, the security of assets which are under control of Pakistan, I think does worry us. And I hope that credible solutions can be found today with that problem.
BLITZER: What specifically worries you about the security of the nuclear assets in Pakistan?
SINGH: Well, if they get into the hands of the jihadi elements, that could pose a serious problem.
BLITZER: And is that possible, do you believe, given what you know? Obviously you watch the situation very closely.
SINGH: Well, I’m not an astrologer (ph), but I hope that this does not happen. And I pray that it will not happen.
BLITZER: Are you concerned — as you call it the jihadi or the Islamist fundamentalists, the extremist elements in Pakistan could take charge?
SINGH: Well, there is always a danger. And we would like Pakistan to emerge as a moderate Islamic state, and we have a vested interested in the stability and progress of Pakistan.
BLITZER: Is it your opinion that Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda still have a base, a significant base in Pakistan?
SINGH: Well, I think there’s no doubt about that.
BLITZER: Where?
SINGH: Well, in the tribal belt of the northwest frontier province of Pakistan, the al Qaeda elements are quite active. And also, the whole infrastructure of the madrasas in Pakistan, the belief that these madrasas can shift away from the teaching of fundamentalism to more modern discipline I think has not materialized.
BLITZER: The madrasas are the religious seminaries and schools in Pakistan. And do you — what are you saying, that these madrasas are training grounds or spiritual centers for al Qaeda operatives?
SINGH: Well, I think — I’m not saying that they are deliberately doing it, but I think jihadi elements have taken advantage of these schools, and they can take greater advantage of that phenomenon in years to come.
BLITZER: There are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan. I think there are more Muslims in India, with the exception of Indonesia, than any other country in the world. You really haven’t had a problem with Islamists or jihadi terrorists.
SINGH: Well, I take pride in the fact that, although we have 150 million Muslims in our country as citizens, not one has been found to have joined the ranks of al Qaeda or participated in the activities of Taliban.
BLITZER: Why is that?
SINGH: This is because India is a functioning democracy. We are a secular state where all sections of the communities, regardless of religion, caste and creed, they may belong to — they can participate in our mainstream national activities. Being a democracy, being a secular democracy where all religions are free to practice their respective faiths without fear, without favor. I think that’s something which has prevented that sort of eventuality.
BLITZER: Do you trust President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan?
SINGH: Well, I have had two important meetings with President Musharraf, and he and I both have committed our two countries to make the peace process between India and Pakistan irreversible.
BLITZER: So the answer is yes, you do trust President Pervez Musharraf?
SINGH: Well, I do trust. But I think there is an old saying of President Reagan: trust and verify. And I sincerely hope that the commitments that Pakistan has made, that the territory of Pakistan will not be allowed to be used for planning terrorist acts against India, that commitment is honored in letter and in spirit. And we have some worries on that score, that the infrastructure of terror is largely intact in Pakistan.
BLITZER: It looks like U.S.-Indian relations right now, in the aftermath of your visit here to Washington, are very strong, very solid, better than they’ve been in a long time. And yet U.S.- Pakistani relations are also very good right now, especially in the aftermath of 9/11, what happened here in the United States. Is this — is that your assessment, that there can be good U.S. relations with both India and Pakistan?
SINGH: Well, we are not against the United States having good relations with Pakistan. As I’ve said, a strong, stable, prosperous Pakistan is in our interests. If — Pakistan admits the jihadi elements are under control is in our interests.
So please, make no mistake, we welcome stronger relations between the United States and Pakistan. And I hope that the United States’ influence can be exercised to ensure that the commitments that Pakistan has made about the control of terrorist activities, they are honored in letter and in spirit.
BLITZER: Since India violated the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, there are some members of the U.S. Congress who don’t want to see India right now rewarded for violating the NPT, the Nonproliferation Treaty.
SINGH: Well, we didn’t violate it. We were never a member of the NPT.
BLITZER: But in effect — in effect — in effect, you went ahead, you tested a nuclear bomb.
SINGH: But we were never a signatory to the NPT.
BLITZER: But should India be rewarded now, in effect? Let me read to you what Congressman Ed Markey said the other day. He said, “We are playing with fire by picking and choosing when to pay attention to the existing Nonproliferation Treaty.”
There was a Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. India never signed it, but went ahead and tested beyond that. Should India be rewarded now with nuclear technology from the United States?
SINGH: Well, there’s no question of dividing (ph) us. The plain fact is that we had nuclear capabilities. But we didn’t go the road of testing nuclear weapons at a time when there was no NPT.
Now, we have a situation in our region, despite all the regimes that are in position, our region has seen reckless proliferation of these sensitive technologies. So we had to take some defensive action in the interest of our national security. You know what I am talking about, the activities of North Korea; the activities of other industry and the A.Q. Khan phenomena.
So therefore our defensive action of developing nuclear weapons was a response to a situation where reckless nonproliferation (sic) was taking place in our region. It poses no threat to anybody else.
We have an impeccable record of not contributing in any way to the unauthorized proliferation of these sensitive technologies. And therefore, I think the world must acknowledge this exemplary behavior of our country. Our nuclear weapons are totally under civilian control. We have a democracy. And that democratic structure ensures that these weapons cannot be misused.
BLITZER: Let’s shift gears briefly and talk about U.S.-Indian economic relations. What do you say to Americans who are concerned about American jobs, good-paying jobs, in effect, going — being exported to India?
SINGH: Well, let me say that if you are referring to outsourcing and all that goes with it, it is not a one-way street. Indian enterprises benefit, but so do the U.S. enterprises. The fact that outsourcing opportunities exist, the U.S. companies are able to procure goods and services at much lower cost. This increases their competitiveness. That increases their ability to compete against their competitors both in the U.S. market and in third countries.
So, if you look at the picture in a holistic way, it is a win/win situation. India gains, but also the U.S. competitiveness also goes up in the process.
BLITZER: That’s in the big picture. But in the specific and the smaller picture, there are Americans who are losing their jobs, because those jobs are moving to countries like India.
SINGH: But one has to look at the big picture. We are talking about two economies as diverse as big as India and the United States. If we were to look at every I and every T, I don’t believe I think we could — I think we could develop a relationship which befits our capabilities and our needs and our aspiration.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And the prime minister was also effusive in his praise for President Bush and for what he described as the excellent state of U.S.-Indian relations right now.
From Washington, he heads back to India.
